Unauthorizing the war

Clinton: Revoke president's war powers

Why wasn't that the stance before Gravel mentioned it? Why isn't he given credit for the idea? Why did Olbermann and Mathews laugh at Gravel when he mentioned it?

 

UGH 

Comments

Similar situation was Turkey in 1974 &5

  Now , this is something that Mike was involved in.

Many references in books and the internet as to when

the U S Congress cut off military supplies

to Turkey.

However , there are no clear internet sources to that legislation.

Here are two references from Gerald Ford's papers:

 http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=4481

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=5438

Seems like the truth is being messed up on that history.

At least two laws seemed to have been in play:

The Continuing Appropriation Resolution for FY 75   Public Law  93-448

 ( looks like  Ford signed this after two vetoes , but tried to blame Congress for

passing it ! )

also  PL  94-104  and PL  95-384

and also  the Foreign Assistance Act of 74 ,  enacted  12-30-74.

 Anyway :  over the objections of the President of the United  States , the US got out of Turkey !

Maybe that procedure can be used now to get out of Iraq.

I thought it might be of interest because  Mike would have personal knowledge

of those proceedings.

ROW THE GRAVEL  !

 tannhauser PACOM  ,  tanaiste

I know you don't view the war in Iraq as a political asset

Mike Gravel... Hello...

I have been alerting people on other blogs that you are about to publish draft legislation to "Fund the withdrawal of all American troops from Iraq within sixty days of its passage, and to fund only that withdrawal", as you yourself proposed in an interview I read right here. Ending the war by de-funding it makes its (il)legality a moot point.

Clearly Hillary instinctively understands what a threat you pose to her war. She is even willing to make it illegal if that allows it to continue.

Edwards as well has embraced your tactic of persistence... wrapped his lips around around it that is. I've yet to see any bill repeatedly sent to the White House for non-signature.

No action yet... from any quarter including, unfortunately, your own.

The sooner you are able to put your proposed draft up on your website the sooner we can all cut and paste it into emails and snail mails and send it to "our" Senators and Representatives demanding that they pass it.

This is not just our one and only way of expressing our desires and demands to the War Criminals in Washington DC in a concerted fashion, but by virtue of your having drawn up the draft it makes you the defacto leader of the antiwar movement and thence of the Democratic Party, as the fight to pass the legislation is realized.

Hundreds of thousands of copies of your draft legislation (I don't need to tell you to keep it simple, I'm sure) arriving by email, by snail mail, read out in telephone calls, sung from telegrams by Western Union messengers, and posted on telephone polls and blank walls all over the country will focus Demoplican attention on a real, enactable way to end the war.

Your name at the top of the draft will solidify your position at the top of the movement against the war. You will become the defacto leader of the Democratic wing of the Demoplican Party as well.

And we will prevail. How can they withstand our persistence? Hundreds of thousands of copies will swell to millions as they dilly-dally trying to avoid the inevitable. How can they not pass a law presented on the initiative of the people and pursued persistently, doggedly, day-in and day-out? How can they take "no" for an answer when we keep saying in measured, deadly serious tones, as deadly serious as the very war itself, "yes, yes, yes! You will!"

We look forward to your victorius stride into the White House on 20 January, 2009, Mike Gravel. But we cannot wait until then to end the war. This war is an unholy holocaust that must end now.

Being the man who ended the war in Iraq is a very good argument for making you President of the United States.

I know that unlike the "top tier" Demoplicans you do not view a continuing war in Iraq as a political "asset" and a Republicrat liability.

Is anybody home?

I'm "replying" to my own post because I'm wondering now if I imagined that Mike said he had legislation drawn up, or was drawing up legislation, to end the war in 60 days?

If he did not say so please let me know so that I can apply to another candidate to author such draft legislation. Perhaps Ron Paul.

If he did say so... I know you're busy Mike but

1. Edmonds has wrapped himself in the robe of your persistence, advocating the passage and repassage of, the appropriation bill Bush vetoed? he's not clear, until... something happens. Invoking your one-man filibuster against the draft.

2. Clinton has wrapped herself in duplicity, reasoning that pursuing an illegal war even after its been acknowledged to be illegal is better than not pursuing it at all. She's going to sign a bill that Byrd is going to author that will rescind authorization for the war in Iraq. So far no bill and no signature.

3. The NYTImes, Neocon house organ of record, has published an article about smooth professionals, at moveon for instance, pressuring individual lawmakers to "do something" about the war. Another war lobby trying to salvage its war with another "resolution"? Who knows. But attracting attention.

I want to end the war. I want to elect you, Mike, because you want to end the war.

I feel sure that your publishing a draft resolution to :

1. fund the repatriation (not redeployment) of all American troops in Iraq (that means there won't be any there anymore when its done) from Iraq within 60 days of the bill's passage (I think 60 days is 60 days, but defer to your experience there), and

2. forbid expenditure of those funds for any other purpose.

on your website, where we all can cut and paste it into emails and snail mails to all our senators and representatives, it will end the war.

If we stand fast, publish the draft on the internet, paste it on lamposts and telephone poles, send it to the senate and congress over and over again it will become the rallying point for the majority of Americans who are against the war and it will be passed, against the wishes of the political class and its patrons.

The move will be a defacto demonstration of NI4d. It will either work, which will build support for the enactment of the "real" NI4d; or it will fail, which will build support for the "real NI4d". In either case it will put the ideas behind the NI4d before the public in a very concrete and graphic way.

The move will make you the unquestioned leader of the antiwar movement, and of the Democratic wing of the Demoplican Party.

Need I mention again that I think that the move will end the war in Iraq!

HILLARY OR SENATOR ROBERT BYRD?

I'm under the impression that Hillary just signed on to the bill presented by Sen. Byrd. I don't think it was her initiative.

Byrd, she's jumping on the

Byrd, she's jumping on the bandwagon.

Good point.

Gravel 08

If Gravel's words can shift

If Gravel's words can shift the attitudes of those in power, it makes him just as powerful as if he were the President himself... gives me hope how a voice can change the world.

Of course this is nothing new, Hillary is no fool, she saw the reaction and noticed that if she doesn't get tougher, Gravel might take her down. I still won't vote for her, and neither will people when they realize who came up with the idea first... noone likes a thief.

The powers at be have woken up, the ends justify the means. I see this as a thing to celebrate cause now when he has that press conference... look out Hillary, you will become the follower.

Gravel you sly old dog...

 


 

 

Even if we should fail, let the ideals live on.

I think so too

People might just think she's being phony because one minute she's acting all tough and than she's doing that. I wonder if this bill has a chance though. I thought it too was originally Hillary's idea but now I see it's Byrd's bill and it isn't too much of a surprise. I wonder what took him long enough. *shrug* Anyways I agree about being a thief. A lot of them at Thursday nights debate last week had some of John Kerry's plans and not one of them gave him credit. It made me so mad (like Obama's talk about health care, that's what Kerry proposed in 2004).

aiyaya...

guess this goes to show just how much some in the mainstream media cares about being fair and balanced.

 time to write again...

http://asp.usatoday.com/marketing/feedback/feedback-online.aspx?type=12


http://plubius.wordpress.com wants Gravel for President!

It makes me upset too

Gravel though said to make it a felony being in Iraq. This is just taking away the authorization which is a legal step that Congress can do. Hillary is finally putting her money where her mouth is apparently. I think it's a good move but do they have the votes to do it? That's the whole problem is the votes. I do hope they take Mike's plan of just keep doing it until the republicans get enough pressure to change their stances. I remember reading an article somewhere that the republicans were waiting until September to change their minds about leaving Iraq. SEPTEMBER?! More people will die and/or be horribly hurt in so many ways. On the Stephanie Miller show she reported this week (yesterday I believe) that ambassador's and other type of people like that who work in the Green Zone are coming back to their respective homes with PTSD! And this is in the green zone!  Oh and the next step Hillary needs to do is make being in Iraq a felony and have Gravel come and speak with her. 

I don't think this idea aattributed to Clinton is whaat Gravel

 Gravel had in mind , aat all.

Graavel's idea was to make it  "illegal" to stay in Iraq -- with a stated penalty.

He keeps suggesting a  criminal penalty !

  tannhauser PACOM  ,  tanaiste

Not exactly what Gravel wanted but...

It's much closer to what Gravel wants than what she originally stated at the "debate". AFAIK, she was for the continued funding of the war with our military pulling out in October. If she had anything like this in mind at the time of the "debate", I think she would have mentioned it at that time.

While this is not all-inclusive of Gravel's ideas, I feel his statements DID influence her decision to sponsor Senator Byrd's bill. Prior to 26-APR when Mike become known all over the world, I never heard anyone talking of making the war in Iraq 'unauthorized' (although perhaps Sen. Byrd has been working on this for awhile, that I do not know).

 

Edit: It seems Byrd has had this in mind since at least February.

Mike leads -- the rest follow

Not only Hillary -- but John Edwards -- is seeing the light -- after, as the NYT described it -- "slackjawed" when Gravel tore into them in South Carolina.  Edwards is running a youtube feature "We the people" in which he seeks an end to the war.  Where were these guys during the build-up to the invasion?? Hiding, dodging, wringing their hands and dropping the ball.  Last week, a senior senator admitted that he heard conflicting information on the war during BEHIND CLOSED DOORS MEETINGS with the Administration and that it didn't jive with what the people were told about WMD.  And what did these noble public servants do.  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!  SLACKJAWED SENATORS.  In contrast, Mike Gravel had the guts to tell the American people the truth about Vietnam when he released the Pentagon Papers and ended the draft.  Come on -- give me a break!  Please spread the word -- the empty suits have to go!!! 

Edwards

In my opinion he's such a hypocrite and just a phony. He talks all the time about being "sorry" for his vote...now that it's safe! He never has apologized or been asked about him CO-SPONSERING IWR however with...[i]Joe Lieberman[/i]. It makes me sick. And not too long ago just about two or three months ago Edwards came out and said that he blamed an advisor for his "mistake" but his wife told him not to vote for it or support the plan. Even she knew! He should have listened to her instead of his advisor and he should stop blaming other people. I remember about two or three months after John Kerry came out and apologized for his vote and started working on trying to end the war (that's the difference between him and the frontrunners now) I saw Edwards at some democratic party event with a small group and someone asked him about being wrong about Iraq and his reply was really scrambly and all over the place and you could tell he was very nervous. I definitley picked up that vibe from him as well. Now of course it's totally safe to be against the war. He earlier this week attacked Harry Reid and Reid had the come back to him. They just don't have the votes yet. Mr. Gravel criticized the Senate/House but he did so with respect and with understanding of what's going on. Edwards is a one time senator who thinks he's ready to be president. Same thing with Hillary and Obama. The egos is amazing. That senior senator you're talking about is Dick Durbin. Guess what? Edwards was on the same committee as Durbin and so Durbin knew they were lying so Edwards knew too. I saw a CNN special late last year about the Iraq "Intelligence" and Durbin was on there talking and singing the same tune so you know he's telling the truth in my opinion. He has nothing to lose. To his credit however Durbin said he was worried about going to jail. I would have done anything I could to save lives. And someone else pointed out here on the forums in another thread in the Constitution that Durbin wouldn't have gone to jail. It seems Durbin didn't know that and that's disappointing. Don't forget that Mr. Gravel was sued by Richard Nixon as well. The only other politician who has come close to being as brave as Mr. Gravel is Senator Kerry who told us the truth about Iran/Contra and closed the terrorist bank BCCI which had the Bush family and Usama BinLadin's family as customers.

INTELLILGENCE COMMITTEE 02?

I have been unable to find a list of members and would like especially to know which Republicans (the majority) were on it and if any of the announced candidates were. Anybody know where? The present committee is no problem, it's just the pre-war one I can't find. Thanks.

Senate Intellgence? hah!

PEOPLE IN THE COMMITTEE 

looked up at http://intelligence.senate.gov/pub107thcongress.html 

and http://intelligence.senate.gov/107351.pdf page 20 of PDF file

Bold = candidates/potential candidates 

Democrats

Bob Graham Florida Chair 

Carl Levin Michigan

John Rockefeller West Virginia

Dianne Feinstein California

Ron Wyden Oregon

Dick Durbin Illinois

Evan Bayh Indiana

John Edwards North Carolina

Barbara Mikulski Maryland

 .

Republicans

Richard Shelby Alabama (Vice Chair)

Jon Kyle Arizona

Jim Inhofe Oklahoma

Orin Hatch Utah

Pat Roberts Kansas

Mike Dewine Ohio

Fred Thompson Tennessee

Dick Lugar Indiana

.

All Senators who voted against the Iraq AOF (Authorization of Force)

Bold = Intel Members after having read the real intel mentioned by Durbin:

Daniel Akaka (D-HI)
Jeff Bingaman (D-NM)
Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Lincoln Chafee (R-RI)
Jon Corzine (D-NJ)
Kent Conrad (D-ND)
Mark Dayton (D-MN)
Dick Durbin (D-IL)
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Bob Graham (D-FL)
Daniel Inouye (D-HI)
 Jim Jeffords (I-VT)
Ted Kennedy (D-MA)
Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)

Patty Murray (D-WA)
Jack Reed (D-RI)
Paul Sarbanes (D-MD)
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
Paul Wellstone (D-MN)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)

Intelligence Committee

Don't forget even Lincoln Chafee voted no for Iraq and he also voted against Bush's "tax cuts." Edwards said his wife told him he should vote against it so she had more insight to the whole thing. Thank you for the list.

I'm not sure where

Did you try searching the Senate website archives?