Ripple Effect: Starts Now!
May 25th, 2008 by Mike and Lori
Senator Gravel ended his run after the 4th ballot at Denver. This is a tremendous disappointment; however it is not the end. Mike told a reporter that he would continue to promote the National Initiative. Whatever we feel about Barr, Obama, McCain,or other presidential candidates, we can continue to support Sen. Gravel by supporting the NI4D.
Thank you, Senator, for working so hard to make true freedom a reality, and for giving us real hope. We are still with you.
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RIPPLE EFFECT
Submitted on June 4th, 2008 by mykyleTHE OBAMA RIPPLE EFFECT STARTS NOW!!!!!
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, DELIVERED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SO THAT YOU CAN BE RESPECTED AGAIN IN THE WORLD AND NOT THOUGHT OF AS THE IDIOTS WHO ELECTED GEORGE W BUSH TWICE!!!!
WOOHOOO!!!!!!
How can anyone vote for a stooge like this?
Submitted on June 4th, 2008 by jflObama cravenly panders to the Israel Lobby
' "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided," the Illinois senator said.
"I will never compromise when it comes to Israel's security".
"We must isolate Hamas unless and until they renounce terrorism, recognise Israel's right to exist, and abide by past agreements," he said.
"There is no room at the negotiating table for terrorist organisations."
Obama also vowed to do "everything in my power" to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.
"The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat," he said. '
The message to Americans : "You don't count."
How can anyone vote for a stooge like this?
See Gaza, Obama, AIPAC for a balanced assessment of the interests of we the people, Palestinian, Israeli and American, involved in the debacle in the Middle East.
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Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel
That's where I lose hope
Submitted on June 4th, 2008 by rosslThat's where I lose hope when it comes to Obama...
Voting for Obama is voting
Submitted on June 4th, 2008 by wentrikinVoting for Obama is voting for more war!
Why else would he want to increase the military budget?
And this is your brain...
Submitted on June 4th, 2008 by SharonSadly, this is your brain on Obama...
We do still have Ralph
Submitted on May 30th, 2008 by Al BundyWe do still have Ralph Nader.
I asked Nader about the Ni4D
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by rosslI asked Nader about the Ni4D in person (and Mike) and he said that it should be put into law (he also said he respected Mike a lot). Unfortunately, that's all I've heard of it from Nader.
I doubt he'll truely adopt
Submitted on May 30th, 2008 by kyeotI doubt he'll truely adopt the NI4D, not to mention Ralph Nader hasn't show Gravel half the respect that Gravels shown him. Somethings shady bout him so in essence NO THANKS.
I have sent a few emails
Submitted on May 30th, 2008 by wentrikinI have sent a few emails over the last few months through Nader's website asking him to add the NI4D to his "12 Issues that Matter in 2008". I think we should all start sending his campaign emails everyday through the link below.
www.votenader.org/contact/
He claims that he represents the people and fully intends to continue his fight against the "corporate domination of the Democratic and Republican parties." He also regularly speaks out against the military industrial complex but we may need to convince him that the only way to fix the current problems is to actually give the power to the people. I'm interested in what you all think of Nader. I really enjoyed watching "An Unreasonable Man" and numerous other speaches of his on youtube but I too question why he hasn't shown Mike more respect. He wrote such kind words about Mike in the foreward of Citizen Power but he seemed to ignore the fact that Gravel was running over the last few months.
It's not like Gravel was the frontrunner in the Libertarian Party and to throw his name in there once or twice would have probably secured him Gravel's supporters if Mike failed to win the nomination. Even though I believe that Mike was by far the best presidential candidate in my lifetime, I kind of questioned his chances of winning the nomination after reading about some of the members of the Libertarian Party who I just knew wouldn't go for Gravel or anything that increased government in any way, period.
Nader has stated on numerous occasions that his campaign is about much more than "winning" as he loves to talk about all the progress our country has made as a result of grassroots movements and "smaller" political parties. It seems to me that it would have been a no-brainer to speak highly of Mike. I just don't get why these corporate named "2nd tier candidates" don't realize that maybe if they all come together just once, maybe they could get a candidate into a debate?
The NI4d has got to take on a life of its own.
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by jfl'I just don't get why these corporate named "2nd tier candidates" don't realize that maybe if they all come together just once... '
That's the ticket according to me. There are two contestants in the political arena : the R&D duopoly, and everyone else. This seems to me where the line must be drawn.
Ralph doesn't even list ending the war in Iraq in his "top 12"! Ralph is not perfect. Actually, I'm not even perfect myself. Hard to believe but true.
Ralph has been around and been continuosuly active for a looong time. He is a technocrat. His issues reflect the bureaucracy and his chronic battles with it. None of us can escape our personal history and should not try to do so. I think Nader's attitude toward Mike is "a bit" patronizing. I'm sure that Mike smiles at that himself. I prefer Mike's personal history. Nader has never been elected dogcatcher. But I'd sooner have Ralph Nader president than Clinton/McCain/Obama and I'm sure that most people here would as well.
Pull together. It's Gravel/McKinney/Nader... and players to be named later... against the R&D duopoly. I cannot say that I could ever vote for Bob Barr, but others can and will, and that's OK because he is not a mainstream R&D duopol. A mainstream opportunist maybe.
The NI4d has got to take on a life of its own. Never forget that Mike Gravel is the initiator of the NI4d. But its perfection and realization are literally up to millions of us Americans.
Work for non-duopols far all representative positions in our government in 2008, and especially in 2010 and 2012. One of these elections we will realize that the the R&D duopols are The Enemy.
If we can get a really strong anti-duopol vote this Novemeber, let's shoot for 20% of the turnout, it will hasten that day.
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Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel - http://groups.google.com/group/ni4dus
I think that Ralph Nader
Submitted on June 2nd, 2008 by Al BundyI think that Ralph Nader views Mike Gravel as being somewhat naive. As much as I like Mike, I have to say that he has not had to deal with the kinds of crap and the amount of crap that Nader has dealt with. Many corporations have tried to destroy him. Nader has been spied on, slandered, and threatened. General Motors actually hired prostitutes to try to seduce Ralph Nader when he was investigating the Corvair. Jimmy Carter made a lot of promises to Nader but failed to follow up after he got elected. Nader then saw much of what he worked to create, OSHA, EPA, and CPSC, destroyed by Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, and Bush 2. Then the Democrats sabotages both of his presidential campaigns. Now everyone blames him for Gore losing in 2000 even though they should be blaming the Democrats for their incompetence and the Republicans for stealing the election.
"Ralph doesn't even list
Submitted on June 1st, 2008 by wentrikin"Ralph doesn't even list ending the war in Iraq in his "top 12"! Ralph is not perfect. Actually, I'm not even perfect myself. Hard to believe but true."
It is not true. Check out the link below to his website. His stance on the middle east is very similar to Gravel's.
Issue #7 of Nader's "12 Important Issues"
Nader/Gonzalez would reverse the current policy in the Middle East.
The current political strategy of pre-emptive war in the Middle East is a disaster for both the American people and the people of the Middle East. It has bloated the already wasteful military budget and has cost at present over 4,000 American lives, nearly 100,000 American injuries, and over a million Iraqi civilian lives, plus the destruction of their country.
Nader/Gonzalez propose a rapid withdrawal of troops from Iraq.
A target of withdrawing troops in six months will be set."
http://www.votenader.org/issues/middle-east/
A target of six months will be set...
Submitted on June 1st, 2008 by jflI wasn't trying to imply that Ralph would not end the war in Iraq. Elsewhere on his site he has committed not to "setting a target" of six-months, but to returning the troops to the US within 180 days of his election. That's half-again as long as Mike will do so, but I'm not quibbling.
No, what I meant was that he and "his team" do not think that ending the war is worthy enough to make his top 12! That six month business is recent. It was not always there. Maybe mine and others' emails got them to add it. My point is that ending the war in Iraq should be Number 1 on anyone's "list of things to do" as POTUS. "My god, if it will stop the killing... YES!"
But it's only made Ralph's list in the middle somewhere, and only after prodding.
So yes, as you say, we must prod him to move the NI4d onto his list.
And to move ending The War up on his list.
As my most cherished candidate is fond of saying: Stop and think, :)
There is no anti-war candidate in the race at the present time. Ralph is against the war and pledged to having the troops home by 20 June 2009, but you have to read the fine print to discover that.
Maybe there's a reason this is his 5th run?
Same with the NI4d. It's a winner. Move it up to the front of the bus.
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Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel
I agree and I think we
Submitted on June 1st, 2008 by wentrikinI agree and I think we pretty much are on the same page. I agree that ending the war should be #1, or maybe #1B with #1A being the NI4D. I just didn't think you noticed Nader's stance on the war. I have been reading these message boards since the fall but haven't commented on them that much until recently. There seems to be some pretty level headed thinkers here and I have really appreciated having the opportunity to read how everybody feels. I hope they stay up on the web.
I was fortunate enough to meet Mike when he was at UPenn and I can thank Mike for turning me on to politics after I noticed him in the early Democratic Debates. Mike has opened my eyed to the real world. I am 31 years old and I have read more books in the last 8 months than in the previous 8 years of my life. I was feeling pretty bad last Sunday after spending the entire day glued to the TV watching the Libertarian Convention and seeing Mike get eliminated from the political arena. I really feel that Gravel has been the best presidential candidate of my lifetime and I don't want his idea of the NI4D to be forgotten over the next few years.
I was also wondering how long it would take for another candidate to pick up some of Mike's stances and I was just very excited that Nader was the first one to do it. He even gave Gravel's answer to the question of same sex marriage. His response was "What the world needs is more love". I really respect Ralph with everything he has done for the American Citizens and even though I personally feel Mike would make a better president, I think Ralph would be far superior to any president of my life. According to his website, he is polling nationally at about 5% and it looks as if he will be on the ballot in every state. If we can push him to take a stronger stance on the the NI4D and the War, I really think Nader can get to that 15% to put him in the national televised Presidential Debates. To me, one of the best ways to spread Mike's message, is to support any candidate, at any level of government, that endorses the NI4D and empowering the people. What better way to honor Mike and all the hard work he has done for us?
People are dying every day in Iraq
Submitted on June 2nd, 2008 by jflPeople are dying every day in Iraq so it is hard for me to imagine anyone asserting that a long term project like the NI4d needs to a higher priority than ending the slaughter... but I don't have to imagine it. I have the evidence in black and white before me.
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Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel
I think that they meant in
Submitted on June 2nd, 2008 by rosslI think that they meant in terms of what we should fight for and what our candidates should fight for, not what should be done right now. We need to devote more energy to the Ni4D, because there are way less people fighting for it.
I just watched Nader's talk
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by wentrikinI just watched Nader's talk with High School students that aired on CSPAN 2 last night. You can still watch it at the link below. There was one student who mentioned Gravel's name in a question basically dealing with the corporate controled elections. He then later asks Ralph directly if he does in fact support the NI4D and Nader quickly replied that he fully supports it. Nader then goes on to explain what the NI4D is and explains how it would improve the country. We just need him to put this issue on his webpage including a link to the NI4D website. Now that Ralph has clearly taken a stance on this issue, it is our responsibility to make sure he backs it up.
I have to warn you that it doesn't come up until about 45 minutes into the discussion but I enjoyed watching the whole thing, As a hgh school teacher, I enjoyed the give and take between Ralph and the high school students.
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=205748-1
Dear Ralph Nader,
Submitted on June 1st, 2008 by jflDear Ralph Nader,
I know you don't really want to win... I know that because you said as much at Google. You're content to act on the periphery and maybe force an issue or two before our attention.
But there are two issues that can put you into contention.
1. The War.
There is no anti-war candidate now. Make bringing ALL the troops home from Iraq by 20 June 2009 Number 1 on your list of twelve things to do. You've pledged to do so in the fine print somewhere. It will make you different from the other candidates and that will be very good for your campaign.
2. The NI4d (National Initiative for Democracy)
We all know the R&D duopoly is The Problem. Further reflection reveals that although the present situation is the end case in unrepresentative representative government, representatives do form a separate class of people from their constituents and are incapable of acting against their own interests to further those of their constituents when necessary. To enact Campaign Finance Reform, for instance. A wiser man than I brought that home to me :) Once you realize that you might despair. Or you might come up with the NI4d... a structural solution to the problem. And he did.
It's your campaign and I certainly support you, but I think you can do better than just raising issues for discussion. We need to maximize the percentage of the vote gotten by non-duopols this year. We have to show ourselves that the R&D duopoly is not predestined to rule, that we can rise up and smite them... that we can take back control of our government. Let's aim to win! And failing that to take 20% of the vote, at least!
And you can win by running Number 1 as The Anti-War Candidate first and foremost on the one hand, and by championing the structural solution to our political disenfranchisement in the other.
Thanks for running in any case. Thanks for fighting the good fight for lo, these many years.
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Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel
Thanks for the link!
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by RipplesI posted this clip on Nader's blog a few weeks ago when somebody complained about him not taking a stance on the Ni4D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLj9AFm0ODg
Ralph Nader needs to take an
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by wentrikinRalph Nader needs to take an even stronger stance, updating his website by adding the NI4D to this list of 12 issues and add a link to the NI4D website. I have been reading the comments on Nader's site for a few months and I haven't even seen it mentioned once. I'm not saying that it has never been mentioned, but it is clearly not one of the "top" issues on his site. We need to make sure that he does more to promote the initiative.
A couple people mentioned it here.
Submitted on June 1st, 2008 by Rippleshttp://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/05/12/no-more-whining/
I'm not sure why the second video I posted won't go to the direct link, but you have to put "Why big business loves Hillary. Mike Gravel and Ralph Nader" in the search. I think this was Mike interviewing Ralph on Air America.
Maybe the reason he hasn't promoted it more so far has been territorial. Nader wouldn't add to his agenda the platform and brainchild of a candidate currently running for another party. That's my guess. Earlier, it could have been perceived as stepping on Gravel's toes, or stealing his platform? Anyway, I hope he gets Mike's blessing to run with it now.
Let's face it if Nader
Submitted on June 1st, 2008 by kyeotLet's face it if Nader thought the NI4D was of any importance he would of helped MIke promote it, have interviews about it up on his webpage, talked about it on national television anytime he got the chance to. For us to beg for him to put it on his web page would only show me thats hes doing this to try is best to pick up the Gravel voters. Change wont come through government its too far gone for that. We have to stop looking for a spokesman to "save us" or be a better half ass choice. The people need to enact that NI4D and all concentration should be put on that imo. I'm not voting this year because every other politician thinks they can fix our problems going through the broken governmental system, for one person to achieve that, its just not possible anymore.
The “Golden Voice of the Great Southwest”:
Submitted on May 28th, 2008 by jflThe “Golden Voice of the Great Southwest”: Legendary Folk Musician, Activist Utah Phillips, 1935-2008
'...And if we play our cards right and have enough time, then pretty soon it won’t be alternative media anymore. But then, we have a thorough understanding... that they fight with money and we fight with time, and they’re going to run out of money before we run out of time. So we’ll just be patient, and you do your work, and I’ll do mine, and we’ll catch up and overtake them.
'And we are building a new world within the shell of the old.
'I don’t feel pessimistic about that at all. There’s simply too many good people right here in this room, too many good people on the street, close to the street, doing too many good things for me to afford the luxury of being pessimistic... If I look at the world from the top down, from FOX, God help me, or CNN... If I look at it from the top down, I get seriously depressed. The world’s going to hell in a wheelbarrow. But if I walk out the door, turn all that off, and go with the people, whatever town I’m in, who are doing the real work down at the street level, like I said, there’s too many good people doing too many good things for me to let myself be pessimistic about that. I’m hopeful, can’t live without hope. Can you?'
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Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel
Thank you Mr Lee
Submitted on May 29th, 2008 by arpidoodleI spent the hour listening to Utah trying to decide what his 'impact' on our incumbents might be. One thing leads to another and
soon I found myself thinking - 'don't draw conclusions - don't close the door - that's not what it's all about. That's what 'they' want us to do -
-to close the subject.
His tacit analogy of young men with guns is quite positive, - are the men in the army there today because they are young or because they want a paycheck, and that need for a paycheck supercedes the need for all other rational?
When I find myself talking at length - to whomever - money invariably finds its way into the topic, well - the blind greed ruling America a.k.a. profit will not run its' course in the foreseeable future. I have to honestly ask, " how much time do how many people spend not worrying about money, but worrying about profit - really, - how consumed are we with the subject?
What will be worth anything by the time people realize their values have been skewed?
Obama made some promises about getting rid of or wanting to get rid of the IRS. I think he is a bald faced liar. Time will tell, but I can tell you right now he is a liar.
That means more women will be raped more nations plundered, and more children killed before we see the light.
The editorial 'we'
Times have changed all right
Don't be afraid.
Don't give up the fight
I don't know about the rest of you...
Submitted on May 26th, 2008 by Shawn in Louisville...but I don't feel like giving up quite yet. Quickly, before we lose the imagination of so many smart, patriotic people, we need to organize something to further the NI4D and keep Mike's (our) issues in the campaign...
Maybe a "Real Voting Day" on November 3rd, where your vote (for the NI4D) will actually mean something. November 4th is just the day everyone else gives away their power...
Damn.
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by RipplesI think that's an excellent idea!
Do you think there's any way it could be done without overloading the website? :)
Many (if not most) people are motivated by a specific time they're supposed to do something. Otherwise they just wait til they get around to it (probably never), and feel no pressure.
Or maybe people who don't ever vote because they're fed up with the system could be persuaded to vote for the NI4D instead, every election day. That could be a good way to "market" it. Go out and register voters just for the NI4D, LOL. (Is that even legal?):p
Gravel losses. Helps Dems
Submitted on May 26th, 2008 by mykyleHey Great news guys, Mike Gravel LOST!!! That means Bob Barr can help siphon off some votes from the Republicans in November.
Obama 08!!!!!!! WE CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!
I think you're right on
Submitted on May 25th, 2008 by jflI think you're right on, Mike & Lori.
I think the important thing to do is to try to increase the per centage of the vote cast for non-duopols. It's possible to write Mike's name in on the ballot. It's possible to vote for McKinney or Nader. Surely many on the right will be voting for Barr.
We the people need a wake-up call, some demonstration that the duopoly's hold on power is not predetermined. A showing in the double digits for alternatives will go along way in that direction. And that is quite possible. Let's shoot for 20%!
People need to be able to visualize their will being done before they can work their will.
Vote Gravel/McKinney/Nader.
Work to elect non-duopols to Congressioanl and Senatorial seats in November and in 2010.
Work for the NI4d.
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Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel
I voted for the Ni4d a few
Submitted on May 26th, 2008 by HitsumeiI voted for the Ni4d a few months ago.
In November, I am planning to vote for Kelcey Wilson in order to help me buy time for my own future campaign for the Ni4d. In 2000 and 2004, I would've supported Nader because Gore and Kerry were clones of Bush, but I lost respect for Nader in 2008 because he was too egotistical to help Gravel's presidential campaign financially. I considered McKinney, but she lacks leadership skills.
In 2010, I will support congressmen who have bright ideas and who don't have dirty money.
In 2014, I will be old enough to run for the House of Representatives and to work really hard for the Ni4d as well as other progressive ideas (2018 for the Senate and 2024 for the White House).
However, we need to find ways of organizing a movement, in spite of a system that goes against candidates of integrity. The current system practically cries out for lobby money when one sees the efforts one needs to make to simply have one's name appear on a ballot in 50 States.
What's even scarier is how net neutrality is being lost when there are Obama and McCain ads funding web sites like youtube. I hope that the internet will not be a corporate entity in 2014. Otherwise, I don't know how I will be able to spread a message.
Thank you Gravel for teaching me political literacy, No other politician has ever given me that gift.
Heyfa K.
Gravel 2008 Montgomery County MD director
katuru83@hotmail.com