We Need A Second Constiutional Convention to Fix America

You may not want to know this.  Americans have been successfully brainwashed to fear exactly what their revered Constitution gives them the right to have.  Those smart Framers of the Constitution decided that we needed exactly what the establishment, pro-status quo elitists who run our plutocracy do NOT want us to have.  There is even a well funded semi-secret group organized to prevent what we the people have a right to. 

 

Has the brainwashing worked?  You bet it has.  In the absence of public furor, for over 200 years Congress has not done what Article V of the Constitution says it “shall” do.  Congress has never issued a call for an Article V convention of state delegates to consider constitutional amendments, in response to two-thirds of state legislatures asking for one.  That numeric requirement – the only specified requirement in Article V – has been satisfied, with 50 states submitting over 500 requests.  Such a convention operating under authority of the Constitution would be a fourth, impermanent branch of the federal system, not beholding to the three permanent branches.  Such independence has been cartooned into a frightening monster.

 

There is no uncertainty about what the Framers thought the nation needed.  They wrote in crystal clear language a two-step process for amending the Constitution.  First, craft proposals for possible amendments.    Either Congress can do it or an Article V convention of state delegates can.  Second, ratify proposed amendments by three-quarters of the states, either through their legislatures or state conventions, as Congress chooses.  The Framers believed that Americans, acting through large numbers of state legislators, deserved a way to circumvent the excessive power of Congress or its refusal or inability to satisfy sovereign citizens – their bosses.  No role was given to the federal judiciary and executive branch in amending the Constitution.

 

An Article V convention is a clear threat to the political, social and economic establishment exerting self-serving influence on Congress.  It can put into public debate ideas for amending the Constitution that threaten established political forces, both liberal and conservative.  Acting independently, it can courageously propose amendments without interference from status quo defenders.

 

So, not surprisingly, many persons and groups holding power oppose an Article V convention.  How have they brainwashed Americans to fear such a convention?  They fostered the image of a “runaway convention” – something to fear on a par with fears of a physical attack on the nation by foreign enemies or terrorists.  How could something placed into our Constitution to thwart an ineffective federal government be turned on its head to become such a feared threat?

 

Clever people grasped onto a historical fact and extrapolated it into a phantasy nightmare.  In fact, the nation’s first and only constitutional convention was a runaway.  Rather than do what had been planned for it – namely to modify the Articles of Confederation that first tied the states together – the state delegates constructed what we have for over two hundred years worshipped: the U.S. Constitution.  Those rascal Framers created a strong federal government that not everyone at the time wanted.  The anti-status quo guys won.

 

Backstage power brokers have never wanted another convention that might change the political system they expertly corrupt and control.  They made people believe that a convention could destroy their cherished, constitutionally protected rights and freedoms.  Or, equally bad, strange amendments would overturn the structure of our federal government and throw the nation into chaos and destroy our lauded political and governmental stability.

 

Is there any supporting evidence for fearing an Article V convention?  No.  To the contrary, there are solid reasons for demanding it. 

 

First, there have been many state constitutional conventions and a huge number of amendments to state constitutions.  Look around.  Our states and their governments have not been ruined.  Conventions were not hijacked and turned into weapons.  And the first national constitution convention was hugely successful, even if it was a runaway, telling us that the good is the enemy of the better.

 

Second, the requirement that three-quarters of the states must ratify any specific amendments produced by an Article V convention provides a safety net.  This is such a high hurdle that it is crazy to believe that truly awful amendments could ever become permanent changes to our Constitution.  Anyway, when an amendment not worthy of retaining has happened, it was fixed through another amendment.

 

Third, the nation’s first Article V convention would be so unique and of such historical significance that in our modern age of media and Internet communication there would be a solar-bright light on all its activities, from the election of state delegates to their debates and final amendment proposals.  In fact, this temporary fourth branch of our federal system would be under more public scrutiny and less susceptible to corruption than our present, permanent branches of government.

 

Fourth, we should reject the indirect way of changing our constitution, namely through interpretations and judgments by those few non-elected, political appointees that serve on the Supreme Court.  Plus, as President George W. Bush has demonstrated, a runaway CEO of our nation along with an ineffective Congress can take big bites out of our constitutional rights and protections and suffer no consequences. 

 

Fifth, while it is true that we have had considerable political and governmental stability, we have paid a heavy price for it: namely a permanent culture of corruption, lying and deception that have danced around our constitutional protections and riddled American democracy with hypocrisy.  Too much stability has turned our democracy into a plutocracy and a convention could consider remedies.

 

Sixth, the majority of Americans are independents, not loyal Democrats or Republicans, and only an Article V convention offers a truly independent route to addressing intransigent root problems that the political system under two-party control has allowed to fester.

 

Seventh, the congressional experience with proposing amendments has shown that though many may be considered, few survive.  Over 11,000 have been considered by Congress, but only 33 reached the ratification phase, and only 27 were ratified – very few in the last 100 years.  [The last amendment was finally ratified in 1992 – 203 years after it was first proposed by Congress!]  Why should we think that a convention would agree on a huge number of amendments?  With all America watching, delegates that know their states would focus on a few critical amendments likely to be ratified.

 

Where do we go from here?  If respect for our Constitution and our sovereign selves prevails, pro-convention patriots must work extra hard to move the nation towards an Article V convention.  The first battle is to get a convention.  The second challenging battle is to prevent a convention from being abused and co-opted by the power elites that would be out for blood after failing to prevent a convention.  A high level of public support is critically needed to win both battles.  To win the first battle, the smart strategy is not to let people become sidetracked about specific possible amendments.  Those who have fostered the Big Runaway Lie will surely posit some terrible possible amendments – ones that would immediately frighten and alienate huge numbers of Americans.  Public fear is their weapon.

 

Back to reality: What we now have, along with runaway public distrust of government, is runaway political disengagement as evidenced by low voter turnout, runaway disgust with both the Republican and Democratic Parties, runaway economic inequality, runaway corruption of government by corporate and other special interests, and runaway mainstream media dysfunction – a corporate press more than a free press.  The only thing Americans should fear is more of the same.

 

Can people purge their brainwashing?  Only if they confront the false status quo bias belief and acknowledge that power elites did it to maintain a system they manipulate.  To be against a convention is to stay a victim.  Let the truth set you free.  Do not fear the second American constitutional convention.  Embrace it.  Do not worry about a convention being hijacked.  Instead, stay focused on this ugly truth: America has already been hijacked by corporate and other special interests on the left and right, along with their sycophant corrupt politicians.  Stay vigilant!  Because power elites will use every dirty trick imaginable to instill fear about a convention and then to undermine it, should they lose the first battle.

 

Come work for an Article V convention to reboot American democracy and provide a transfusion into the body politic through a heavy dose of transparent direct democracy.   Help the USA remain committed to the rule of law.  Compel Congress to respect what is clearly stated in the Constitution, and the meaning of “shall.” 

 

The Supreme Court decides whether laws passed by Congress are or are not constitutional.  But it refuses to tell Congress and the nation that Congress’ refusal to call an Article V convention is unconstitutional.  What happened to checks and balances?  Maybe Supreme Court Justices have also been brainwashed, or like members of Congress don’t want to risk losing their power.

 

The bitter truth is that literally every individual, group and institution now holding real power opposes a second national constitutional convention.  Does that make the quest for a convention futile?  Only if one gives up on the supermajority of Americans that should, for their own sake and the sake of future generations, want a convention.  Elitists have much to lose.  Everyone else has much to gain.

 

The fight for American democracy is not over.  Our Founders fought British oppression and now we must fight congressional oppression.  Can nonviolent collective action produce an Article V convention?  Only if each of us says “yes!”  And then help spread an idea virus to reach a tipping point among we the people: Millions of Americans must tell state legislatures and congressional delegations they demand a convention.  Tools may include citizen state petitions on the Internet and thousands of community meetings arranged through meetup.com.  Such activities and a convention itself would provide what many believe the Framers intended to create: a deliberative democracy.

 

On the occasion of the 200th anniversary of the Constitution, esteemed political scientist James MacGregor Burns, warned that “major changes will not be made until there is a severe crisis – at which time we might open the floodgates to reckless constitutional change.”  Instead, he advised taking thoughtful action now.  “We must all become framers,” he advised.

 

To keep working on the goal of forming “a more perfect Union,’ and as a political necessity and a moral obligation, we OUGHT to have a second national constitutional convention – which means we the people CAN have one.  Simply put, an Article V convention is all about “power to the people.”  Either you believe in it or you don’t.  The people who created our nation and Constitution believed in it.  They gave us Article V.  Our elected MISrepresentatives in Congress and their masters don’t believe in it.  They won’t willingly give us a convention.  We have a runaway Congress.  That’s what’s frightening.  And that’s why we must fight for a convention.

 

Comments

I submit these ideas for consideration

 

In response to:

I had never seen this thread before.

Submitted on February 7th, 2008 by jfl

 

I cannot figure out Wikipedia, so I copied everything here.

 

Section 2

This is the bootstrap.

my idea..... This administrative group is only needed to initiate the first Convention, thereafter the law will be in effect wherein various issues will have to be voted on. (read my post on ...unnecessary in this posting., for some ideas of things I think the public should vote on. By public I mean National level because I think the Federal government is far more autonomous than the States. Sorry I just don't know how to use this template and it interferes with my train of though.

 

[edit] Section 3

How to bootstrap.... by electing one person per state and territory that is what 52 or 53. Far too many and complicated to administer. What about an auditing firm such as one that works with associations or the Miss Universe, or Emmy awards. Something along that nature. With one representative from each registered party, Rep., Dem., Green, Ind.,etc. etc. as monitors

 

[edit] Section 4 and 5

On these two I agree with your suggestions  However, I don't understand the need for double elections. Too complicated to get everyone to come back to vote a second time. maybe 50% will show up the first time, no why bother with a second vote. Rather - I think adequate notification be required to advise and inform all those within the constituency to which the modification, act, law, etc. living in that constituency and only one vote being held within a specified period of time depending on the urgency.

Granted it will take a bit of education and time for people to learn how to review and research the proposals and to learn how and where to vote. After a couple of town hall meetings, courses in schools, teas, etc. it will be easy for everyone.

Now this would apply only on the first Democratic Act, where the Amendments to the Constitution be altered to add that the public will vote for annual budgets and spending, tax changes, contracts over X million or billion dollars, subsidies and bailouts, etc. Once the amendment is applied to the Constitution, These items and more shall be approved by national public vote to be held over the internet, at schools, poll centers, etc. annually. In event of emergency funding/spending over and above the top allowed to congress must be voted on in an emergency vote.'

 

[edit] Section 6

Regarding donations... I see no difference between Corporations, Unions, Associations, Groups, etc. and individuals. All entities physical and ??? and individuals sharing interest in such entity shall have a one time per Democratic Act with a maximum limit of a $100,000 donation. (this amount is for illustration purposes, I have no idea what it takes now days to administer, print, advertise, etc.) Shareholders in some Corporation can not make multiple donations as individuals and as Corporate, and unions would either make a lump sum donation for all members or each member makes their own donation but not both, same for associations and other groups.

The principal of this would be to keep down the chances of coercion, buying insider help, influencing the Administrators. Which in reality it is pretty hard to control.

--Sfpanama 01:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC) back to the Amendment

 

My point is to work on a national level,  yes this particular Act is blanket for all levels of government and in that aspect it is fine, but the first we should work at is regaining some controls from the National level as congress is too autonomous and the time paperwork it takes to get through to them to get bills made up is overwheming for probably 90% of the population.  The money interests hire people to do all the leg work so that doesnt bother them.  Furthermore, I believe once this is doneon the National level,  the states, cities and townships will more readily become transparent and open up for public voting on their own.

 

Switching on.

SF

Thanks for having a look

Thanks for having a look, and thanks for your discussion.

You've been clicking on the 'Discussion' links, section by section. These are meant to be points of departure to stimulate discussion and not proposals. It's been some time since I first posted this, and I have since come up with concrete proposals for changes to both the NI4d Amendment and the NI4d Act.

At the top of the Amendment page on the right hand side is a little grey box that says 'Visit the talk page:'. Click on that box and you will see my full proposal for "fixing" the NI4d Amendment. There is a similar box and a similar talk page corresponding to the NI4d Act.

I'd appreciate your reading what I've put forth and coming back again for discussion, if you like.

Any and all interested others please join in as well.

--

Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel

 

Ni4D creating another set of controls?

 

Almost!   The reasons for this initiative are great, a bit controlling which is going against what it is setting out to do.

We the people do not need another legislative branch to make our decisions for us. 

Yes, we need a group to initiate, collect funds, collect signatures, present to the Convention and oversee that the initiative is enacted.  Thereafter, the group of overseers should be dismantled.

A better initiative to present to the Convention is a list of specific changes to the Amendments of the Constitution.  Some of which include the following:

1)      EACH FISCAL YEAR A NATIONAL BALLOT SHOULD BE PRESENTED TO THE PEOPLE FOR A VOTE  with a simple 51% rule, and should include

  • a)     Tax restructuring and or new taxes
  • b)       Annual Budget and spending
  • c)       Regulation and or De-regulation of entities receiving subsidies, incentives, government contracts or grants, etc.
  • d)      Individual rights already listed in all Amendments of and in the Constitution or proposed.
  • e)       War and or aggressive acts against other countries.
  • f)        Treaty and trade agreement changes and or proposal
  • g)       New issues and or laws for consideration and or presentation winning a simple 51% majority vote in either the HR or Senate.

2)      PROPOSED JUDGES TO THE SUPREME COURTS

  • a)      Changes to interpretations of Constitutionality

 

Placing these and other specific and general issues back in the hands of the individual to decide is Democracy as our present Government tells us - "for the people to decide".

With big brother already "in" our face (new REAL ID), the internet can be used to get a ballot to the people in a matter of a couple of hours.  So there is no need for long drawn out delays in printing, distribution and voting.  Once people are registered to vote, they can do so online.  In addition each individual can monitor the voting process live and in real time.  We no longer need the corporate NEWS Media. This is the CHECKS AND BALANCE of our legislature we need.  Direct action by the people, monitoring of that action on through to its fruition.

Arguments:  People won't vote, don’t have access to internet, don't understand the issues.

I disagree to those arguments.  If they do not vote, that is a statement of NO CONFIDENCE.  Internet can be provided at all schools and other voting polls we now have.  It is the duty of our elected officials to take out the mumble jumble so that we do understand the issues in everyday plain language.

Finally, a group is needed to get this Initiative going, funded, presented and enacted, but thereafter the group is shut down.  Not needed anymore.

So why then do we need the present Congressional Group?  They act as creators, filters, overseers, enactors of laws.  They get the proposals ready for presentation to the public for vote.

The US is no longer in the dark ages, communication is instant, a world of information is available on the internet for us to study, debate and learn. People are educated with at least a minimum of education, meaning they can decide for themselves what they want and need and can vote on any issue. Remember you can fool some of the people... but not all the people, so coercion or undue influence would only work in pocket areas not the entire population.

 

Switching on.

SF

I had never seen this thread before.

I had never seen this thread before. Reading it now I have to say that my chief criticism of both the original post by statusquobuster and the latest by sf is that the proposal for a convention is a proposal for more of the same : "representative" government. I believe that our present, unrepresentative "representative" government is the problem, not the solution.

What's required is direct citizen action.

Reading below I find a lovely quote from Coffin Joe :

' If we can't elect a Congress capable of submitting for ratification to the several states a series of useful Amendments, what hope is there we can stage a successful Constitutional Convention?  That's like trying to get married, because you can't find a girlfriend.... '

You said it Joe! I suspect that statusquobuster is a 'perfidious poltroon" as well. Not once in his whole screed does he mention the proposals he would put before his convention : Xtian Sharia perhaps?

Frankly the NI4d suffers from the same disease, as presently crafted : The United States Electoral Trust is represetative government as usual.

I have tried to "fix" the National Initiative Amendment here.

And to fix the National Initiative Act here.

I welcome any and all comments. 

--

Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel

 

Constiutional Convention ?

 

Sounds like "spoonbender logic". The PROCESS has been hijacked. It sounds like Joe Stalin logic: vote anyway you want, I count the votes! It's based on the flawed asumption of "vox populii" the voice of the people has spoken.They are the same nutter's that voted twice for George Bush ! Do you trust your neighbor to do the right "enlightened" thing ? Vox Populii is always wrong. Our polilical history is a mosiac of the general mass's of poeple always being on the wrong side of important issue's at first, and then finally coming around after it's too late. Were too dumbed down to be trusted with such a fundamental change. Pass the Kool Aid !

The NI4D Amendment provides a way

You should read the National Initiative for Democracy Amendment. It provides a means for we, the people, to amend our Constitution without such a convention. But it is not a method that can be abused by too much activity since it has built in limits, and requires a rather large majority vote to succeed.

We can save our country from this corrupt mess we have become. As Mike Gravel says, we just need to do it!

DON

Only democracy will save us!

THE NI4D AMENDMENT

DON IS RIGHT THE NI4D AMENDMENT IS THE WAY TO GO.

Agreed

Juan

A Constitutional Convention?

I oppose a Constitutional Convention because, as a matter of practical reality, it would be conducted by an assemblage of elected delegates.  Who would those elected delegates be?  Presumably, they would be those persons with a proven track record of being able to win Federal elective office, which essentially means the holding of a Constitutional Convention would be akin to licensing the current Congress to re-write the Constitution.  The prospect of a new U.S. Constitution authored by such peridious poltroons as, say, Charles Schumer and John McCain, is a horrific prospect likely to lead to a totalitarian nightmare of almost Soviet scope.  If we can't elect a Congress capable of submitting for ratification to the several states a series of useful Amendments, what hope is there we can stage a successful Constitutional Convention?  That's like trying to get married, because you can't find a girlfriend....

Constitutional convention

The elected delegates would be elected or selected by the state convention in each state, they would not be composed of the state legislators or Congresspersons. This is the only way for the citizen to get involved and take our country back from the corrupt political corporate elite.

Read some articles on the subject.

“We the people” are the government, of the People,
by the people, and for the people, and are the “Deciders”.
We have the power to restore America to greatness and honor.
You can help rescue our endangered democracy from the political-corporate elite,
through clean elections, a popular vote for president, a strong
third political party, and an Article V Constitutional convention.
Learn more at
www.helpchangeamerica.com.
Email:
bob@helpchangeamerica.com

Yes! WE DO NEED A CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION

The Founding Fathers in many of their statements..even said as much. We hold the power over the government and should not be afraid to exercise said powers. While as distasteful to you as it may seem. Our country is in crisis! Not only should we elect Mr. Gravel, but also when he's elected... We The people should demand a convention. If we don't do something soon...our country will fall into the people being subjegated to the Government and not the other way around. The government needs a long overdue overhaul..so elect people you want to be in office and would feel more comfortable being in the convention.

Constitutional convention

I could not agree with you more. We need writers. Join us and write an article.

“We the people” are the government, of the People,
by the people, and for the people, and are the “Deciders”.
We have the power to restore America to greatness and honor.
You can help rescue our endangered democracy from the political-corporate elite,
through clean elections, a popular vote for president, a strong
third political party, and an Article V Constitutional convention.
Learn more at
www.helpchangeamerica.com.
Email:
bob@helpchangeamerica.com

NATIONAL CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION PUSH NOW UNDERWAY!!

 A Constitutional Convention is definitely the way to go in terms of taking back our government. An active effort is now underway to do just that. I believe though that our republican form of government needs to be preserved. The Founders did not trust the masses and neither do I. Do you want the evangelists, MTVers, or Wrestlemania crowd to have the greatest say?---they comprise some of the largest blocs of the citizenry.

Another thing that has to be reckoned with is the fact that the majority of states are dependent on the federal dole for their financial well-being(see Tax Foundation for statistics). As such, the state legislatures likely will not support a push that irritates the feds in any way. Nonetheless, I have devised a plan that will get us a Convention by making it very attractive to the states to call one. You can learn more at the link below:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NationalConstitutionalConvention06

http://www.foavc.org

Those with the best information are most likely to succeed.

Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

                       ---Barry Goldwater 

They are not interested in politics!

I have no fear of evangelists, MTVers, or the Wrestlemania crowd in democracy. These sorts are not interested in politics enough to make a difference even though they may have large audiences. The ones who will vote on initiatives will be the ones who really care. And trivial initiatives will have no chance to get on the ballot. NI4D has safeguards against that - it is not that easy to get an initiative accepted.

Currently we are being pushed around by a corrupt system of elected officials combined with a corrupt media that keeps their guys in power.

DON

Only democracy will save us!

 I disagree Don. That is a

 I disagree Don. That is a HUGE assumption to say that certain large demographics will not participate. Giving the people a direct voice will greatly encourage many of these groups to get more involved. Given their agendas as well as the dumbing down of our society as a whole, this is opening up a pandora's box. The Founders were wise in fearing "rule of the masses". MTV already has get out the vote drives and the Christian Right is very politically saavy.

Those with the best information are most likely to succeed.

Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice and moderation in the pursuit of justice is virtue.

                       ---Barry Goldwater 

These may be large groups, but no where near the majority!

These groups may try to get ballot initiatives, but these would fail against the majority. During the diliberations of the initiative (which NI4D requires) the real agendas of these groups would be revealed and rejected.

There is much wisdom in the majority. You are not referring to the majority in bringing up these groups.

Now I am not saying that some of those groups would not be capable of originating a good initiative. A good initiative would be accepted by the majority after a full hearing of its pros and cons.

Admittedly, there are a lot of warped Americans. But the majority of Americans are good, honest, intelligent people. They can be trusted! They can be trusted far more than the ones currently running things.

DON

Only democracy will save us!

BEST INFORMATION : WHAT HAS IT COME TO ?

There is nothing quite like taking a survey of current conditions.

Take information, for example.

(And by the by : this is where our candidate has an advantage.)

There goes information:  signal  ...  intelligence ...  counterintelligence.

Even the History Channel had a show on this.

Their conclusion was that counterintelligence is now all there is.

(Previously, I have complained about that as "double-dealing.")

Folks , we are in the POSTinformation age !

I might think that  Mike Gravel might know what to do.

  tannhauser PACOM  ,  tanaiste