$250 Donation from Ron Paul Supporter (Thanx to Greg Chase's stand!)

October 26th, 2007 by WRellim

Below is a copy of an email I have sent to Mr. Chase, documenting my appreciation for his public stance and support for Mike Gravel.

Along with this I have made a $250 donation to the Gravel2008 campaign (I included the receipt for Mr. Chase to have verification, but obviously I don't really want the whole thing with my private info published in a forum!)

 

 

 

Dear Mr. Chase,

I have watched your YouTube video in support of Mike Gravel, and while I do not have anything like your cash reserves, you have moved me to support him with a (not huge, but non insubstantial) donation of $250 directly to his campaign. (As proof see the attached email I received from the Mike Gravel campaign as a receipt for my donation.)

IMHO, Senator Gravel has definitely earned the respect of ALL Americans for his integrity, hard work, and many gutsy actions and stands during the early 1970's. There is a good chance that I, personally, probably owe my life (or at least several years of it) to his single-handed filibuster to end the draft; and we ALL owe him a debt of gratitude for his truly patriotic and risky actions in exposing the Pentagon Papers!

And like you, I have applauded and admired (alas from afar) this former Senator's guts, temerity, and honesty, especially in exposing and challenging the sheer insanity of the other Democratic candidate's positions on Iraq and Iran, and indeed our entire foreign policy; and I feel his voice NEEDS TO CONTINUE to be heard in the democratic debates and the population given the opportunity to vote for him in the primaries! There, I hope and think that he will demonstrate significantly LARGER support than the polls and pundits give him credit for.

I also find him to be a refreshing and invigorating voice of reason on trade issues, immigration, Veteran's benefits; and ending the failed "War on Drugs" (how can our government be allowed to declare a "war" against its own citizens? this kind of thing not only needs to be repealed, but prevented from recurrence by some form of prohibitive Constitutional Amendment).

Unfortunately, I do *not* agree with much of the rest of his platform or positions.

  • While his proposal of healthcare vouchers is admirable in intent (and certainly better than any form of "Single-Payer" or "Universal Insurance" proposed by the other Democratic candidates) I still believe it would only lead to even further increases in health-care costs.
  • Likewise his proposal for Social Security sounds good, but ignores the mathematical and demographic problems of an increasingly older population. (Whether the "money" is a direct-transfer or from a reserve of "securities" will make little difference; the laws of supply & demand would make the value of such securities ever decreasing as they were sold to fund SS payments -- so either way a nation cannot support an excess of 30% of its workforce in a "retired" capacity, it simply isn't feasible, and the system must be abandoned as the Ponzi scheme that it always was.)
  • I also disagree with his (admittedly rather vague) position on Education -- making governmental over-funding of schools a priority is what has gotten us such a poor quality educational system. This needs to be returned to local control ASAP. (I have worked closely with a large number of youth in scouting and church programs during the past 2 decades, and have found that by far the most advanced for their age are always those who are either home-schooled or who have attended SMALL private schools, even those with minimal funding; they are typically several years ahead of their public-schooled age-mates.)
  • Finally, I must significantly disagree with his stance on the abortion/pro-life issue. The federal courts significantly overstepped their bounds in the Roe V Wade ruling; what constitutes "crimes-of-violence" and the like have always been a state-level issue, with the only time the federal government becoming involved is if the issue involves multiple states and/or actions of government officials under the color of law.
So I am giving him some support in the form of a cash donation (what I can give). And I thank you for pushing this to the forefront of the news with your own recent actions; they are the actions of someone who is a TRUE patriot, and who has some love for what this country has been and hopefully can be again. It renews my faith that there is at least a small remnant of people within our country that are willing to step out in faith and resolve in these troubled times; it is especially heartening to see someone so young willing to do so!

Why am I writing this note? Well, I wanted you to know that your message has been heard by others, and that at least some (one?) of us has taken both heart and action as a result.


But I also want to suggest that if Senator Gravel fails in his bid for the nomination, or is somehow driven out of the debates and primaries; that you look to (and hopefully support) another candidate who has many similar positions, and a similar history of honesty, integrity, and TRUE GRIT.

I speak of course of Congressman Ron Paul, the Republican candidate for President; who holds similar concerns and many similar positions to Senator Gravel. True there are also significant differences; but electing either of THESE men of integrity is NOT the equivalent of electing a "dictator" or "dictatress" as we would have in the remainder of the candidates -- what I mean by that is if we CAN succeed in getting either Senator Gravel *OR* Congressman Ron Paul to achieve the nomination for their party, and even elected President -- we could then alternately support or oppose them on specific issues through our Congressional representatives. Both of these men have a solid respect for the rule of law -- exactly what we have been missing in our Federal Government for the past 30 years and 3 administrations.

So if you would be willing to send me a Mike Gravel Yard Sign, I will proudly plant it in front of my home right next to my Ron Paul sign.

Respectfully Yours,

-- 
Warren L. Miller
President
WLMUnderhill, LLC
WebSites: http://www.infiniteronpaul.com/

 


I hope the readers of this forum and supporters of Mike Gravel will take heart from this, and will give their all for their own candidate (stop talking and writing in forums and start donating and campaigning!) -- and likewise will consider supporting Ron Paul in his bid for the Republican nomination.

 

Regardless of which party we are in, or what minor issues (or positions on issues) divide us, we cannot let THEM use that against us any longer, we need to all rise up and take our country back!

Sincerely,

WRellim

‹ A video in support of Mike Gravel! schedule ›

Comments

I am sorry I have upset you so Mr Miller

Submitted on October 27th, 2007 by jfl

I am sorry I have upset you so Mr Miller. I tried to remark on a phenomenon that seems to me to affect all of us. And to be very germane to Mike Gravel's campaign.

Certainly I have observed in myself an unconscious ranking of others according to their presumed wealth. To be "hip", to be a "winner", to be all that is projected by the advertising regime as desirable is associated with wealth.

Conversely, not to be wealthy is to a "unhip", a "loser", to lack all that is projected by the advertising regime as desirable.

And advertising works. It plays on deeply seated beliefs held in common by the culture in which it operates.

I have spoken of Mike's candidacy to people whose response was a look of "are you crazy", or one of pitying condescension. How sad a case was I, who would even consider backing a "loser" such as Mike Gravel. And to have said so out loud!

I believe that Gregory V Chase's offer was and is worth more than one million dollars to Mike's campaign, because his offer validates Mike Gravel in the eyes of us all, whether we admit it or not.

I was not trying to say that his offer validated Mike Gravel in the eyes of that philistine William I Miller, although certainly that is what you heard. I apologize for insulting you.

Nor was I trying to insult Gregory V Chase.

I'm sure that you are a both much worthier men than myself Mr Miller, and I am very sorry that I have caused you offense.

Sincerely,

John Francis Lee
261/3 Thanon Sonkhongluang Soi 12
Amphoe Mueang Chiang Rai 57000

I vote from my last address in the US .

4301 Gulfbreeze
Corpus Christi TX 78402

--

Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel

Regardless

Submitted on October 27th, 2007 by benjamin
Regardless of anything else, you donated 250 dollars, which equals 500 for the campaign.  What Mike really needs is two things, exposure, and money to gain exposure.  So on behalf of most of the supporters of the Gravel campaign here, thank you.

Thank you Mr. Miller !

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by L.T
Thank you Mr. Miller !

It's OK because the "smart money" has done so.

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by jfl

I will of course take Warren I Miller at his word and accept that he is making this donation because he does admire Mike and does feel he owes him a debt of gratitude.

But I would like to call attention to the tone of his obeisance to Gregory V Chase :

I have watched your YouTube video in support of Mike Gravel, and while I do not have anything like your cash reserves, you have moved me to support him with a (not huge, but non insubstantial) donation of $250 directly to his campaign.

So I am giving him some support in the form of a cash donation (what I can give). And I thank you for pushing this to the forefront of the news with your own recent actions; they are the actions of someone who is a TRUE patriot, and who has some love for what this country has been and hopefully can be again. It renews my faith that there is at least a small remnant of people within our country that are willing to step out in faith and resolve in these troubled times; it is especially heartening to see someone so young willing to do so!

Why am I writing this note? Well, I wanted you to know that your message has been heard by others, and that at least some (one?) of us has taken both heart and action as a result.

This is a man addressing his religious superior. He knows nothing about Gregory Chase but that he has more money than he, Mr Miller has. Yet he is addressing a religious superior. This is spiritual homage in the religion where money is god.

I mean no disrespect to Mr Miller. He is doing a good thing and I do not call his motives into question. Who am I to do so?

But I wish to remark upon the extent that all of us instantly defer and accord honor to a wealthy man or woman. And regardless the source of that wealth. A gangster one generation removed is a philanthropist.

This is the real value of Gregory V Chase's contribution. He has made it OK to support Mike. It's OK because the "smart money" has done so. A hedge fund manager, someone who has gamed and apparently beaten the system has done so. We have all now been granted dispensation.

Again, I mean to cast aspersions on no one, certainly not upon Gregory V Chase, merely to remark on the strange religious mysticism of our human race.

--

Times have changed. We are going to empower the American people. Let’s work together. I am tough. I’m not afraid. None of this politics as usual. Mike Gravel

You're basically just a "troll" then? Why is this ONLY respose?

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by WRellim

What saddens me most is that *THIS* is the only response from people on the Mike Gravel forum?

Don't let this fool be the only one to speak here, folks. He denigrates and disparages everyone and everything he touches. Surely the rest of you here are NOT like this?

 

This is a man addressing his religious superior. He knows nothing about Gregory Chase but that he has more money than he, Mr Miller has. Yet he is addressing a religious superior. This is spiritual homage in the religion where money is god.

And YOU know nothing about either of us. You also apparently know little or nothing about respect, much less a willingness to step out in trust and to put the fruit of your labor where your purported values are.

I mean no disrespect to Mr Miller. He is doing a good thing and I do not call his motives into question. Who am I to do so?

Ah, but you are being a snide little snake and doing EXACTLY what you claim NOT to be doing. You speak from BOTH SIDES of your mouth -- and manage to do so at the same time. You make multiple ad hominem attacks and then cloak your accusations in "religious words." As to the last question... indeed, WHO ARE YOU? You do not even have the guts to identify yourself, as both I and Mr. Chase have done.

But I wish to remark upon the extent that all of us instantly defer and accord honor to a wealthy man or woman. And regardless the source of that wealth. A gangster one generation removed is a philanthropist.

Actually, a gangster one generation removed is a Kennedy or a Bush and typically becomes President. (Giuliani, like the Clintons, is different only in that he's trying to do it himself, without the additional generation. But perhaps you truly support one of these? Hence your familiarity with gangsters and their ways.)

This is the real value of Gregory V Chase's contribution. He has made it OK to support Mike. It's OK because the "smart money" has done so. A hedge fund manager, someone who has gamed and apparently beaten the system hash done so. We have all now been granted dispensation.

Nothing of the kind motivated me (though perhaps it IS what motivates YOU since you dwell on it so much). What motivated me was simply this: prior to Mr. Chase's moves, the Gravel campaign was simply going to be excluded and "eliminated" by the PTB in the mass-media, as they have excluded and eliminated many campaigns in the past. Nothing that *I* could have done would have made a difference at this stage. However, since Mr. Chase's announcements and actions, my own action is no longer unimportant. Were you (or other purported Mike Gravel supporters -- and if you are not a supporter then why are you here in this forum?) to follow Mr. Chase's actions in solidarity and donate of your time and money (rather than disparaging those who do), then perhaps it would be even more meaningful and Senator Gravel's campaign would gain new life and vitality.

His actions did not grant "dispensation" (methinks you are NOT really familiar with the word's meaning) -- only a motivation that with the publicity, others would also step forward in support. (But alas, as your note is the only response to my own, I fear it will not be so, and that, if nothing else, pharisee that you are, YOU will simply choose to flagellate others for sins which exist only in your mind. How sad indeed.)

Again, I mean to cast aspersions on no one, certainly not upon Gregory V Chase, merely to remark on the strange religious mysticism of our human race.

Actually your words DO "cast aspersions" -- you have the double-forked tongue of a snake. You are far too timid to identify yourself by anything other than a moniker of the inherently anonymous "jfl".

And worst, rather than identify yourself at the end of your post, you place a quote from and end with the name of Mike Gravel (a man with infinitely more integrity) -- in perhaps a vain and pointless attempt to make people believe that the response was from Senator Gravel.

You, "jfl" should seek help soon. Please.

Warren L. Miller 

Mr. Miller, I think it

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by BamaGravelian

Mr. Miller,

I think it is a good thing that you are contributing to Mike Gravel's campaign. Your letter conveys an appreciation for honesty and a concern for the future of America that many Mike Gravel and Ron Paul supporters share alike. I urge you not to place judgment on the character of all Mike Gravel supporters on the basis of a perceived personal attack by a single contributor. In this instance, I think you may have mistaken an honest observation for a personal attack.

In my opinion, jfl's remarks comparing money to religion should be interpreted as general observations on the condition of society. I believe his use of the word "dispensation" is metaphorical, making reference to the practice of dispensation in the Roman Catholic Church. jfl's observations are based on the content of the letter, and I do not think this should be interpreted as a personal attack. There are many prevalent attitudes in our culture that unconsciously permeate in our language. People who openly question these attitudes often do so at great risk of being misunderstood and causing offense, as these attitudes are so deeply ingrained in public discourse.

As a Gravel supporter, I will be honest and admit there are a few instances in your writing that leave mixed feelings. I would like to reference one comment you gave in your last post:

"What motivated me was simply this: prior to Mr. Chase's moves, the Gravel campaign was simply going to be excluded and "eliminated" by the PTB in the mass-media, as they have excluded and eliminated many campaigns in the past. Nothing that *I* could have done would have made a difference at this stage. However, since Mr. Chase's announcements and actions, my own action is no longer unimportant."

There many supporters in the Gravel campaign that lack money, but have spent a great deal of time on the campaign. I honestly think these people are making a difference and are inspired by Mike Gravel's courage and perseverance. Gravel's plan for the National Initiative for Democracy rests with a decision from the people that will not be bought by money, but will come to pass through the realization of individuals, rich or poor, willing to make a difference in their society. Although many people may disagree with Gravel on individual issues, this populist message of his campaign is universal and is an essential driving force for his campaign in this election.

I would like to briefly write a few words in defense of jfl. He is a prolific contributor in this forum and has done much to help organize efforts by grassroots supporters online. If you go to the volunteer section of forum, you will see many examples of his efforts. From personal experience, he has been very helpful in setting up a yahoo group for Alabama, and his writing has often been an inspiration to me. In his posts on the forum, he is not one to mince words, but shows passion and honesty. I hope you will reevaluate his words in this context, as I sincerely believe they were not ill intentioned.

As a Gravel supporter, I can identify with jfl's frustration with the emphasis upon money in our culture. One of the most refreshing things I find in Gregory Chase's commitment towards supporting Gravel is not his offer of a large sum of money, but his decision to leave his daily duties as a hedge fund manager for the pursuit of spreading Mike Gravel's messages to the public. This action is something from which everyone, rich or poor, can take inspiration.

Sincerely,

James Richardson

WRellim, Thank you for your

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by Mike and Lori
WRellim, Thank you for your contribution to Gravel's campaign. I think it is amazing the amount of support this debate exclusion has generated from all sides. And, as much as I hate to admit it and cater to it, the fact is MONEY TALKS and it is absolutely essential in the campaign process. Hell, traveling alone is outrageously expensive, let alone paying his staff, etc. So again, THANKS for your suppot! Lori

THANK YOU!

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by Sharon

Mr. Miller,

I, for one would like to thank you for your generous contribution to Mike's campaign. My best friend is a Ron Paul supporter who has also been kind enough to donate to Mike. He likes Ron Paul more, but still has a lot of respect for Mike. We have many interesting conversations and debates about the issues, which actually makes us both think about what the really important issues are. Do not think that we all feel the same way! I am so very appreciative that the Ron Paul (and Dennis Kucinich) supporters have helped Mike out by signing petitions, sending emails, and even donating to the campaign. We are all looking for the same thing when we choose to support our respective candidates- which is a fundamental change in the way our government is run. Thanks again, and do not be discouraged!

                                   Sincerely,

                             Sharon Herrmann

Thanks!

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by WRellim

Many thanks Sharon for writing that, I needed to hear that!

 

I mean of all the possible responses, I had never expected to be told that I was "worshipping money" -- egads!

 

I truly wish that I could afford to be even more generous to the Gravel campaign, as on many issues I think he demonstrates even more "fire" and "vigor" than does Ron Paul (although I believe BOTH of them are steadfast and solid and completely reliable in their stance against the "empire-bomber-bullder" idiocy).

 

But while most of my efforts (obviously) are going to where I believe they can have the most effect. I felt both motivated AND chastened by Greg Chase's stance. Motivated because there was something that could be done to help Gravel, and someone who was willing to put both his money and his time towards it in a substanatial way (rather than for example, the worthless things like making weird posted accusations of people having "religious-money-loving" motivations).

So I wanted to do what I knew I could to both support and encourage that... Senator Gravel's voice should be heard -- at the very least until the public has a chance to vote in a few primaries! Nothing ticks me off so much as the pundits and politicos "choosing" who we will be allowed to hear or vote for. We've had decades of that crap and those decades are too much.

 

It's time we take back our country. It won't be given back just because we "ask" -- we are going to have to work for it and fight for it with everything we've got.

 

I, personally, do NOT want to even contemplate some day in the future when a son or grandson or nephew asks "What did YOU do back in the days when the 'Empire' replaced the old Republic?" -- Or if we have to face that day, then at worst I want to be able to honestly say: "Son, I did *everything* I could, I spent every penny I had, every waking hour I could afford -- trying to save our Republic. I didn't let it go down without a fight!"

 

But what I truly HOPE for instead, is that I will be able to say: "That's right son, just like my own ancestors fought for American independence back in the 1700's, I did my part in the Restoration of the Republic in 2008! With ideas and work instead of bullets! But you've got a lot to live up to... you have a Republic to KEEP! Be proud of your country, but always be vigilant lest you lose it!"

 

Warren L. Miller

Thanks a lot WRellim!!  I

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by meloman15
Thanks a lot WRellim!!  I am so glad to hear that you did that, truly I am...With federal matching funds, your $250 donation is actually $500, so that's another big time bonus.  Also, if you could, could you possibly spread the word to your fellow Ron Paul supporters and see if they can contribute whatever they can as well?  I'm sure you already have or are in the process of doing so, but if not, then that would be extra appreciated.  Thanks and take care!

Personally, I don't care

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by Legend

Personally, I don't care what anyone says about money or how much you donate. The unfortunate fact is that MONEY IS IMPORTANT. So I donate. I don't donate because I'm rich, I donate because it NEEDS TO BE DONE. If mike could win without a dime HE WOULD DO IT! and I wouldn't donate. However, the facts are facts, we all struggle to survive in this material world. So money IS IMPORTANT it may not be religous, but it is important to survive in the society we have created for ourselves by electing corrupt officials and running are democracy into the ground. We must smite evil, with evil. you think we can win this election by giving Hillary flowers and asking her to leave because we don't like her? NO, we must force her out and into the bowels of hell.

 

(okay, I'm not religious but bowels of hell just sounded great :P )

-Evan

From Nevada.

order in the court!

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by arpidoodle

jfl (john francis lee) has been a tireless workhorse for the Gravel campaign, he will not condone the diluting of Mike's ethics for any reason. That is the type of compromise that leads to loss of purpose.

He did not call you a recombinant virus, he is protecting/defending against that, and rightfully so. Please do not be offended. Integrity, rather, the lack of it, is what is wrong with politics.  Children dying everyday for the profit of these people is no joke. As a Ron Paul supporter, you should be aware of this, and should have expected to draw some fire here.

 

Bravo for your efforts, both of you. 

Maybe he needs a rest then...

Submitted on October 26th, 2007 by WRellim

Because he attacked both me and Mr. Chase, needlessly and pointlessly maligned and insinuated motives from his own fervent imagination.

 

He began with the words "I will of course take Warren I Miller at his word..." and then proceeded to make a host of baseless assertions about me.

 

I do not think he is concerned about Senator Gravel's ethics (which are not in question), but rather is (perhaps) frustrated that the support has come late -- if so, I can understand the frustration; but not with the diatribe. On the other hand, he seems to hold some personal grudge or dislike of business people such as myself and Mr. Chase, and has chosen to vent this dislike in a rather pointless fashion, as by his own admission, he does not know either of us, and therefore also knows nothing about the business ventures or careers of either Mr. Chase or myself. Yet that does not stop him from making ridiculous comments on other people character.


If he is (and I hope he is not) an example of the type and attitude of "tireless workhorse" then hopefully he will either learn to NOT malign others, or he will be sadly be driving many away from the campaign who might otherwise be willing to help.

If people want to

Submitted on October 27th, 2007 by kyeot

If people want to support Mike Gravel and his ideals then it doesnt matter what JFL says IMO as they are not of the same people.  I feel sad for the poor soul who would abandon there ideals because of one mans comments.  Personally I didnt find his message insulting, rather it was more observant than anything.  I must admit it is a first time for me to encounter someone donating because big money did, but we all come from different walks of life.

There are many excellent reasons to donate to Mike Gravel... because he needs it, our democracy needs it, our country needs it.  Whatever inspires you to contribute to Mike Gravel more power to you!  Gravel 08!

We need more than a rest

Submitted on October 27th, 2007 by arpidoodle

I would hope this would draw people into a debate about the integrity of politics, and that it would lead to the obvious conclusion that politics as usual is producing disastrous results. There is way too much of the attidude that 'people are set on this earth to serve the politicians ends - end of story'.

 

Mr. Miller, I attended Nicholson Catholic College, a prestigious, snobby, asshole of a learning institution.  Not only did I study English Lit/Comp, French and Latin there, I also learned that "the way to pay for salaries was to raise taxes" This was the prevailing form of remunerative motivation from the school that produced the majority of our local politicians and lawyers.

 

Hell of an attitude towards the taxpayer isn't it? That was in 1969-70, I daresay, things have not improved since.

 

I want a 'rest' too, Mr Miller, you could help even more than you already have by crossing over and joining the party that fights politics as usual via the elimination of unbridled representative government through the National Initiative.

Help end the chaos our representatives are wreaking. Stop and think. You can do it!

 

Give yourself a rest. Endorse Gravel!